tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post991224682721320142..comments2023-10-20T07:14:40.841-03:00Comments on Ecumenicity: Luther: There He StoodTom B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-35254950126318115042007-08-17T20:09:00.000-03:002007-08-17T20:09:00.000-03:00Adam,I meant Lutheran inclination to reunite with ...Adam,<BR/><BR/>I meant Lutheran inclination to reunite with Rome, not with the later offshoots of Lutheranism. I highly recommend reading some of Fr. Richard Neuhaus, who converted from the Lutheran Clergy to Catholicism.Tom B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-62483886651436147832007-08-17T10:01:00.000-03:002007-08-17T10:01:00.000-03:00Joseph,What I'm saying is that there were many peo...Joseph,<BR/><BR/>What I'm saying is that there were many people who already new there were problems within Roman Catholicism. Luther was simply the most prominent voice of an already living movement. <BR/><BR/>Blessings to you,<BR/>AdamFuture Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03862214936693708244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-73141224268591572152007-08-17T09:54:00.000-03:002007-08-17T09:54:00.000-03:00Thos,His criticism would be mine - that if the err...Thos,<BR/><BR/><I>His criticism would be mine - that if the errors Luther saw were fixed, where is the modern Lutheran incliniation to reunite?</I> <BR/><BR/>Good question! Fortunately, Lutherans are making attempts to reunite. The LCMS just declared pulpit and altar fellowship with the AALC, which indicates that we do desire a unified fellowship. The thing is, we're honest about fellowship and we understand that bad doctrine hurts the church. As such, if one Lutheran body says that it's fine for its clergy to remain in committed homosexual relationships...well, we can't claim to have the same understandings of the faith. <BR/><BR/><I> My other big problem with Lutheranism (frankly) is that it's a movement named after a man. Silly of me, perhaps, but that makes me so hesitant</I><BR/><BR/>I had the same issue when I came to the Lutheran Church. As a "nondenominational" Christian I couldn't understand why any movement would name itself after a man. Then I found out that it was a negative term applied by Roman Catholics to the first "evangelicals." In short, Lutherans never started out with the intention of being referred to as Lutheran. In fact, Luther himself disliked the term. That said, it became clear after some time that the label would stick whether we liked it or not. So, it was accepted and they moved on.<BR/><BR/>Blessings to you,<BR/>AdamFuture Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03862214936693708244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-41838029183973779762007-08-17T01:21:00.000-03:002007-08-17T01:21:00.000-03:00Thos,I apologize. That anonymous remark was mine....Thos,<BR/><BR/>I apologize. That anonymous remark was mine.Skyrim Geekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809088855172879580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-54616761782975103832007-08-16T23:14:00.000-03:002007-08-16T23:14:00.000-03:00I think what Adam is trying to say is that Martin ...I think what Adam is trying to say is that Martin Luther led a really, really big revolution, and he is really, really proud of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-37733623395991634942007-08-16T22:28:00.000-03:002007-08-16T22:28:00.000-03:00Good comments all. Tiber Jumper, I've enjoyed you...Good comments all. <BR/><BR/>Tiber Jumper, I've enjoyed your blog previously. Thanks for the link, and I love the sign! I only came across the quote from his noted biography, and did not research to see if Luther displayed any later (changed) opinions. <BR/><BR/>Adam Roe, I am a big fan of the Lutheranism that I've heard Fr. Richard Neuhaus describe (see First Things magazine). His criticism would be mine - that if the errors Luther saw were fixed, where is the modern Lutheran incliniation to reunite? My other big problem with Lutheranism (frankly) is that it's a movement named after a man. Silly of me, perhaps, but that makes me so hesitant.<BR/><BR/>GFF, thanks for the recommended reading... It sounds like you agree that a conscience needs formation and boundaries before it merits the status as ultimate moral/faith guide.Tom B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-59129321350541836192007-08-16T16:01:00.000-03:002007-08-16T16:01:00.000-03:00You should read JPII encyclical Veritatis Splendor...You should read JPII encyclical Veritatis Splendor. (NOT light reading let me warn you). <BR/><BR/>In it, he makes the point that we must follow our consciences (its our God given moral compass). However, consciences must be trained and the only institution one could trust with such a critical task is the Church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-575315578879849212007-08-16T10:38:00.000-03:002007-08-16T10:38:00.000-03:00Thos,I came across your blog through JP Manzi's si...Thos,<BR/><BR/>I came across your blog through JP Manzi's site and I appreciate the sincerity you display in your search.<BR/><BR/>One thing to consider as it relates to Luther is that even as he was personally speaking at the Diet of Worms, he was in fact representative of an entire movement. As such, it wasn't so much that Luther was a revolutionary in himself. It was more that he, and many, many other people recognized that some of the teachings they had received through the papal communion were not the Scriptural or historical understanding of the faith. <BR/><BR/>In addition, Luther's understanding of interpretation was far different than that which we see in most of contemporary Protestantism. He didn't pull Scripture away from the history of the faith and go it alone, so to speak. He and the other Lutheran reformers based their opinions how revelation was received and practiced throughout the history of the church. This is why the Lutheran reformers still held to the Real Presence, confession and absolution, etc... In short, their intention wasn't to create a new movement within the church, thereby forcing the pope to excommunicate them. Their intent was to encourage the church back to the historic understandings of the faith, particularly as it related to justification. <BR/><BR/>Blessings to you,<BR/>AdamFuture Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03862214936693708244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-56595156860181055882007-08-16T09:35:00.000-03:002007-08-16T09:35:00.000-03:00Regarding Luther's quote, he may have changed his ...Regarding Luther's quote, he may have changed his mind after this comment he made.<A HREF="http://crossed-the-tiber.blogspot.com/2007/08/need-for-another-rule-of-faith.html" REL="nofollow">Check out the quote of Luther on this pic in my post.</A>Russ Rentler, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00659833542780220795noreply@blogger.com