tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post6767376947763338848..comments2023-10-20T07:14:40.841-03:00Comments on Ecumenicity: Torodes and ContraceptionTom B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-6665483174248371952007-09-06T18:06:00.000-03:002007-09-06T18:06:00.000-03:00Jim,Thanks for the good comment - made me think qu...Jim,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the good comment - made me think quite a lot about this. Like you then, I only have a vague recollection of Pill use statistics. I just tried my hand on Google and came up with little. I know Catholic disobedience to their teaching on this is high. While I do not doubt that many Catholic women take the pill, I would be surprised if it's as many as Protestant women - simply because NFP is far more widly taught and subsumed into Catholic consciousness than in Protestant churches. People in my Reformed circle think I'm a nut for talking about the pill being bad - my Pastor had never heard the notion till I suggested it... this must translate into at least some minor statistical difference.<BR/><BR/>But I may be wrong, or the difference may be SO minor as to make your point just as valid. So let's suppose Pill use is roughly equal (and we're still stipulating the hypothetical that the Pill is objectively sinful).<BR/><BR/>You said, "But if use of the Pill is just as widespread among Catholic couples[...] then it wouldn't seem to me that your causal story can be correct."<BR/><BR/>This provoked a lot of thought. I have no great answer to give you, and you may be right. I guess I would say that even if 30% of women used the pill no matter their church (and we're still stipulating the pill as being an evil), in one case the Church has at least "bound [believers] on earth" against an evil (Mat 18:18), and they've chosen to do it anyway, and in the other the church/Bible duo have not bound us against that evil. So this may say nothing about righteousness vs. evil, but it could still say a lot about the church. Perhaps without Catholic resistance to the Pill, there would be no resistance. Perhaps the future will hold different statistics? <BR/><BR/>I feel my thoughts are riddled with holes, so look forward to your response.Tom B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-1542084274124699252007-09-06T16:46:00.000-03:002007-09-06T16:46:00.000-03:00Thos,You may have read the question more tendentio...Thos,<BR/><BR/>You may have read the question more tendentiously than I meant it. (But given our earlier interaction, I can't blame you.)<BR/><BR/>My impression is that use of the Pill is roughly equal in Protestant as well as Catholic couples, but I don't remember why I have that impression. I'd certainly be impressed, and would give the American Catholic church two and a half cheers, if use of the Pill was significantly lower among Catholic couples than Protestant ones.<BR/><BR/>But since you opened the door in your testimony, perhaps I might as well walk through it.<BR/><BR/>Your argument seemed to me to link the "wide and unrestrained use within Protestant circles" of the Pill to the fact that "the Scriptures, being vague on this matter and open to individual interpretation, leave each person to do as he sees fit."<BR/><BR/>But if use of the Pill is just as widespread among Catholic couples, then having, then it wouldn't seem to me that your causal story can be correct.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484863804749639654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-77827331072698121232007-09-06T12:56:00.000-03:002007-09-06T12:56:00.000-03:00Objection, counsel is leading the witness... [Sus...Objection, counsel is leading the witness... [Sustained.]<BR/><BR/>I do not "have" any such data, though I have read such in the past. Where I perceive you to be going may misstate the issue I was raising in my post though.<BR/><BR/>I have a HARD TIME (as in actively, daily, this is hard for me) following a moral principle (to not contracept) when I'm not certain I'm right, and my church tells me there's no problem with the act. The Catholic who chooses to use contraception has chosen to remove himself from submission to his church's teaching authority. IF (hypothetically) it is an illicit practice, on whose head does this sin fall? Who's letting God down? <BR/><BR/>And this was only an example. Morality in general is hard to debate, hard to settle, hard to follow. We need a NORMATIVE STANDARD, and it's hard for me to believe that, if certain acts are offensive to God at all, that he wouldn't give such a standard.Tom B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08014927666068877364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8505754445949711172.post-18149717042684556342007-09-06T12:30:00.000-03:002007-09-06T12:30:00.000-03:00Do you have any data on the use of the pill among ...Do you have any data on the use of the pill among RC couples relative to Protestant couples?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06484863804749639654noreply@blogger.com